Curse

SonofGrenth · Mar 17, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

How about changing a few skills on monsters in Underworld, for example putting in some nasty touchers? SF itself is not "godmode" as several people here say. For EOTN dungeons its actually pretty bad (except for example; Darkrime Delves), and most of the time it is used to farm, tank or as runner. Leave it as it is, just change a few mobs here and there to make it harder to do.

If you want to nerf SF why not nerf 600 monks, IMO they are better nerfmaterial, as they can do almost any dungeon with relative ease, with help from a hero or two.

So because UWSC is the most used argument here, let's look at the mobs and find something to make it harder for the perma's. And pugging for UWSC is almost always /fail. I will begin finding solutions right away which I will post in a day or two.

~The Son of Grenth/ The Devils Cutlass (who is proud to be a SF sin).

Sjeng · Mar 17, 2009, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonofGrenth

How about changing a few skills on monsters in Underworld, for example putting in some nasty touchers? SF itself is not "godmode" as several people here say. For EOTN dungeons its actually pretty bad (except for example; Darkrime Delves), and most of the time it is used to farm, tank or as runner. Leave it as it is, just change a few mobs here and there to make it harder to do.

If you want to nerf SF why not nerf 600 monks, IMO they are better nerfmaterial, as they can do almost any dungeon with relative ease, with help from a hero or two.

So because UWSC is the most used argument here, let's look at the mobs and find something to make it harder for the perma's. And pugging for UWSC is almost always /fail. I will begin finding solutions right away which I will post in a day or two.

~The Son of Grenth/ The Devils Cutlass (who is proud to be a SF sin).

exactly what I suggested. QFT. thank you for this post

it's the best one in this thread so far.

Quozz · Mar 17, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Overpowered farming skills don't keep the game alive. SF, Ursan and others of the same breed are actually killing the game quicker. They destroy the value of most items in the game and this is what makes the rewards for completing an elite area seem so pitiful.

And stop crying about spending hours completing an elite area without your SF crutch. If you can't complete Foundry in under 5 hours without SF then your doing it wrong. If you actually play the game, use some skill, and play as a team you will complete most elite areas fairly quickly. Won't be 30 minutes but it certainly won't be 3+ hours. I'm sick of people who feel they are entitled to the best rewards in the game for little in the way of effort or time commitment.

To be honest, so much damage has already been done nerfing SF is months too late. However it should be done to show that Anet has finally gotten a clue as to why skills like this are bad. Because if they don't then I fear this kind of nonsense is what is going to be in GW2 right from the start.

riktw · Mar 17, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

only way to nerf and not kill SF is like this:
16 shadow mastery it lasts 20 or 19 sec, and the lose health thingy away.
for 20 seconds all attacks mis and all skills fail, but you deal 33% les damage.
but just keep it like it is now.
energy pressure makes a/e lame, a/me dont got damage dealing skills like sliver armor.
so its good the way it is.

Kattar · Mar 17, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

They destroy the value of most items in the game and this is what makes the rewards for completing an elite area seem so pitiful.

You mean the over-inflated value of FoTM items?

Yeah, real shame.

zling · Mar 17, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

funny how ya'll crying against a [shadow form] by saying "no, it will kill UWSC, who will do blahblah again...?" well, let me ask you something:
what was everybody doing before the ridiculous SF buff? what did all the noob Ursan PuGers do after Ursan got nerfed?

I dont know about you but most are still around and kicking... so what's the sudden worry?

P.S there's a difference between Permanoob and 55ing, VwK, etc. Permanoobs are invincible to like everything, 55ing, VwK, etc have a lot more counters to them. they're still viable cause a lot of PvE mobs dont have the proper counters, but even those that do are usually not enough for Permanoobs. and I will repeat what others have said here, [spell breaker] is an elite skill, [mist form] is an elite skill. there's a reason why these 2 skills are elite! so why on earth should a single elite skill combine the power of 2 elite skills and even be better at it(being maintainable and all...)???

yes PvE means nothing nowadays, nothing is worth doing any more, blahblahblah. nobody's stopping you from quitting GW, nobody needs people with that attitude, kthxbye

Hailey Anne · Mar 17, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

Overpowered farming skills don't keep the game alive. SF, Ursan and others of the same breed are actually killing the game quicker.

You are so very wrong.
Do you know how many people quit after the Ursan nerf(not saying I like Ursan)?
Do you know how many people quit after the first SF nerf?
People use these in actual groups where without them they would just rather go with H/H. If anything killed the game its Heros not the PvE skills,not SF, not RoJ. The day that people realized that a computer is better than a player is when the game truly started to die.
SF is just fine as is. Only updates I want to see now is PvP balance and new Content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

yes PvE means nothing nowadays, nothing is worth doing any more, blahblahblah. nobody's stopping you from quitting GW, nobody needs people with that attitude, kthxbye

Nothing making you use these skills either, if you dont like the way it works don't use it. Nothings stopping you from quitting the game because you don't like the skill either nobody needs dictaters either "kthxbye".

SonofGrenth · Mar 17, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

yes PvE means nothing nowadays, nothing is worth doing any more, blahblahblah. nobody's stopping you from quitting GW, nobody needs people with that attitude, kthxbye

This sentence explains why you should stop posting on this thread. These kinds of posts do not keep this thread alive for a very long time.

~The Son of Grenth/ The Devils Cutlass

zling · Mar 17, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

and this thread is so important that it must stay alive right?
there are 2 groups of people in this thread. the first are those who recognize the problem and either whine about it or offer solutions(both good and bad). the second are those in denial, who seemingly cant live without SF just like they couldnt live without Ursan, etc. most of them are still here and whining when their FotM farming crap gets the nerf bat.

as for myself, I'm with the people that think that SF is just too broken to not get killed altogether, or get a funcionality change like Izzy did to so many other skills...

Mordiego · Mar 17, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Balancing SF is very easy, but ANet fail to realize it.

Simple fix: Revert it to what it was before it got the big buff. SF wasn't a problem before the buff. Problem solved?

But hey, the games all about money, and PvE is already fubar. Don't expect a nerf anytime soon.

sad, but true. We gotta learn to live with it and hope aNet gives us another chaos gloves thing, but this time at 1000e, to ballance the ecto market which is getting saturated pretty fast since the SF buff.

Let ppl farm with SF, but give us something to spend all those ectos on, so that it won't drop on value due to the inflation.

zling · Mar 17, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

at above post, the problem with [shadow form] is NOT related to the crappy GW economy... the crappy economy comes from 4 years of hardcore farming by a lot of people and the simple fact that there's no limit in the supply(mobs are always there) but a limit in the demand, therefore prices are falling rapidly.

Mordiego · Mar 17, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

at above post, the problem with [shadow form] is NOT related to the crappy GW economy... the crappy economy comes from 4 years of hardcore farming by a lot of people and the simple fact that there's no limit in the supply(mobs are always there) but a limit in the demand, therefore prices are falling rapidly.

agreed. We should have a better limitation system to high-end elite areas than just the favor system and always available scrolls.

SonofGrenth · Mar 17, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

and this thread is so important that it must stay alive right?

It must stay alive long enough for people to find a proper solution, and this solution is not reverting SF to it's old form or changing the skill entirely. Want to make Assassins worthless in HM if you change the skill? RoJ or Cryway will dominate them as there would be no use for any assassin in a regular HM group.

Incubus spawns at common farm locations would fix the problem, but people would not like it, but its better then a total nerf of SF.

~The Son of Grenth/ The Devils Cutlass

Kattar · Mar 17, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

It must stay alive long enough for people to find a proper solution.

Obviously you've missed the myriad other threads about SF.

That said, let's try and keep it close to discussing the OP's idea, rather than just SF in general.

Quozz · Mar 17, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hailey Anne

You are so very wrong.
Do you know how many people quit after the Ursan nerf(not saying I like Ursan)?
Do you know how many people quit after the first SF nerf?
People use these in actual groups where without them they would just rather go with H/H. If anything killed the game its Heros not the PvE skills,not SF, not RoJ. The day that people realized that a computer is better than a player is when the game truly started to die.
SF is just fine as is. Only updates I want to see now is PvP balance and new Content.

Nothing making you use these skills either, if you dont like the way it works don't use it. Nothings stopping you from quitting the game because you don't like the skill either nobody needs dictaters either "kthxbye".

I would say I have no idea how many people quit because of any particular nerf or change.... but neither do you so stop throwing around statements as if they are backed up by proven facts. Honestly if you quit a game because one skill gets nerfed then it shows how immature one is and the community is better off for it. If you think that a computer is better than a human player is then you are seriously delusional. Granted people have varying skill levels but I will take my alliance mates over the AI heros any day of the week.

I don't use SF, never used Ursan (other than the requirment for that one quest). The only reason you and others like you use SF is not because its fun. You use it because you can make a ton of in game loot for little effort. Would you still use SF if ectos, golds, tomes, and picks didn't drop if it was on your bar but its permanent invulnerability functionality remained the same? No you wouldn't, because its not fun your after its profit your after. If profit is the only way you can have fun than your playing the wrong game.

And please stop bringing out the "don't use it if you don't like it arguement". That horse was beaten dead a long time ago and everyone knows it for the crock that it is.

The only thing I can agree with you on is that I would also like to see new content. However, I don't want new content if its going to be farmed into oblivion less than a week after its released.

Hailey Anne · Mar 17, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

I would say I have no idea how many people quit because of any particular nerf or change.... but neither do you so stop throwing around statements as if they are backed up by proven facts. Honestly if you quit a game because one skill gets nerfed then it shows how immature one is and the community is better off for it. If you think that a computer is better than a human player is then you are seriously delusional. Granted people have varying skill levels but I will take my alliance mates over the AI heros any day of the week.

I don't use SF, never used Ursan (other than the requirment for that one quest). The only reason you and others like you use SF is not because its fun. You use it because you can make a ton of in game loot for little effort. Would you still use SF if ectos, golds, tomes, and picks didn't drop if it was on your bar but its permanent invulnerability functionality remained the same? No you wouldn't, because its not fun your after its profit your after. If profit is the only way you can have fun than your playing the wrong game.

And please stop bringing out the "don't use it if you don't like it arguement". That horse was beaten dead a long time ago and everyone knows it for the crock that it is.

The only thing I can agree with you on is that I would also like to see new content. However, I don't want new content if its going to be farmed into oblivion less than a week after its released.

If you think that humans are better then the H/H then it is YOU that is delusional. I can beat any thing with H/H but the first time I go with a group its failed. and the "don't use it if you don't like it arguement" is completly valid. No one is forcing you to use these skills, stop trying to dictate others game play already. I DO have fun making profit doesnt mean im doing anything wrong. I've played through the game normally so many times already if I want to use an easy button now I will. And dont tell me I dont use SF because its fun, you dont know what I find fun. And I DO know people quit when Ursan was nerfed and I DO know that people people quit when SF was nerfed thats not just a statement its a fact.
but still just /notsigned to the OPs suggestion that WOULD kill it.
IF it got changed the only suggestion on here that would be any good at all would be making it a form seeing as how it IS Shadow Form

faraaz · Mar 17, 2009, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quozz

If you think that a computer is better than a human player is then you are seriously delusional. Granted people have varying skill levels but I will take my alliance mates over the AI heros any day of the week.

Things the AI Heros do better than your alliance mates...

[tease]
[jagged bones]
[death nova]
[order of pain]
[cry of frustration]
[splinter weapon]
[Reversal of Damage]
[Leech Signet]
[power block]
[distracting shot]
[punishing shot]
[savage shot]

I could go on and on and on...

Moral of the story: AI H/H > Human allies.

Ty.

Kattar · Mar 17, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

K, the off topic has gone on long enough. There's nothing more to be discussed that hasn't already been covered on the topic of Shadow Form. We'll discuss it further when ANet does something else to it. Maybe in the April update.

Closed.